ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Matt Redman
Matt Redman started out as a teenage worship leader when the Soul Survivor festival began in the early 1990s. Since then he has become a respected songwriter and leader the world over. His songs include 'Blessed Be Your Name', 'The Heart Of Worship' and 'Facedown'.
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TEACHING
The Clinic: Matt Redman on Living In Tune, Trusting God and Passing the Baton
Matt Redman
Welcome to the first interview from The Clinic, a new series that aims to take a clear, honest look at the way things are these days. First up, Matt Redman.
Kingsway: In these days of global communication, when community no longer depends on physical location, do worship leaders still need to be connected to a local church?
Matt Redman: I guess there are different levels of doing so, but at the end of the day part of being 'church' is learning to share our lives. So you could probably do that on email or the internet to a degree. But I don't think it could really replace the level of community and life-sharing that happens when you eat together, pray together, sing together, and support one another in day-to-day life The 'local' is so important. As a worship leader, I probably meet a few too many musicians these days who deep down see the local church as a stepping stone to something else. Some seem to be hoping that their local church situation might propel them to something they feel is bigger or more worthwhile, and don't realise what an important, beautiful and powerful thing local church is.
Having said all this, I do think having a 'global' perspective is really important too. It really opens up our eyes of faith when we begin to see the big picture - that all over this globe God is weaving together an absolutely incredible plan.
K: I'm interested that you mentioned the temptation to 'see the local church as a stepping stone to something else'. Is this an indication that we could be on the way to Amos 5 territory, where our songs end up as little more than meaningless noise? How much correction does our current course require?
MR: I think so many leaders and speakers - and even songs - have spoken into this area. Perhaps there has been so much emphasis on this is because we did get carried away with songs and sounds and forgot just how much it is ultimately about lives of love and service. Singing is easy... ok not everyone can sing exactly in tune, but let's face it, most people can carry a song to some degree. But living 'in tune' is a hard much more weighty proposition.
we can very easily critique someone else's walk and find fault, but have blindspots as to what might need cleaning up or attending to in our own lives
K: I'm going to push you on the use of past tense there. Is 'getting carried away' a thing of the past? Have we rediscovered 'lives of love and service'? What's our scorecard looking like these days?
MR: I think it's impossible to know really. I guess a healthy worshipper keeps asking the Holy Spirit to 'search me... and see if there's any offensive way in me... and lead me in the way everlasting'. We're on a constant learning curve, and make it our lives aim to 'find out what is pleasing to the Lord' (Ephesians 5:10). I heard Mark Driscoll say that it's very easy to spot idols in other people’s cultures, but we often find that hard to do in our own. And sometimes it's the same with our lives - we can very easily critique someone else's walk and find fault, but have blindspots as to what might need cleaning up or attending to in our own lives. A humble heart to hear from God and from others speaking into our lives is essential.
K: Amen to that. Tell me, are you still finding inspiration in Tozer? What would he have to say to us today?
MR: Yes, I'm often reading some Tozer. It seems like so much of what he said about worship, and particularly the awesomeness of God, is so relevant and poignant for the church today. He said that it's a delightful thing to worship God, but also a humbling thing. Our worship can become so mundane and casual if we're not careful, but the most healthy expressions of worship are full of wonder and reverence.
K: Let's get practical: what spiritual disciplines do you practice to avoid your worship - and I guess your relationship with God - from becoming mundane and casual?
MR: When I say 'mundane' or 'casual' I guess I'm talking about out tendency to think about and approach God Him as if He is ordinary rather than unfathomably extraordinary. Acknowledging out dependence on Jesus is a great sign of a reverent heart. You can be in a potentially stressful season, perhaps financial or job related, or looking for some kind of breakthrough or restoration in a relationship. How you act in that moment tells you a great deal about what kind of worshipper you are, and what level of trust you're operating at in your walk with God. The more reverence we have for His power to act, and the more revelation we have of His immense love and care for us, the more we will trust Him as we journey through that season. Beautifully, the result of this is not only that we bring honour to God, but in the process we get to live a less pressured and stressed life. We probably all have levels of trust we've operated at. And they're probably directly related to our view of God. Practically, that affects everything from your thought life, through to how often you're willing to get your wallet out and part with some money in the offering at church. If you have a big view of money and a small view of God, putting those pounds in the collection is going to be a whole lot less inspiring of an occasion!
K: Remembering the time when Soul Survivor was just starting out, what significant lessons did God teach that remain important for you today?
MR: So many things. I guess the biggest one is that if you put the exalting of Jesus right at the centre of what you're building, you're likely going to see the smile of God on the things you're working towards. We knew so much favour on that Soul Survivor church plant - it was a bunch of young people trying to be a Biblical, authentic, relevant, Holy Spirit-dependent church, and I'll never forget the adventure of that. It also taught me that the gospel really works. We weren't flashy, we weren't the most culturally relevant gathering going - sometimes it felt like all we had was 'three chords and the truth'!
is 'getting carried away' a thing of the past? Have we rediscovered 'lives of love and service'?
I've had the privilege of being involved in a few church plants and all have been so different in their expressions of church. It's refreshing to see that the gospel really does work. In all of those various communities we've seen inspiring signs of the kingdom - people being rescued and healed, the truth of God shaping people's lives, and the poor and forgotten being cared for.
K: Back in those Soul Survivor times - when all you could cook was popcorn - I remember you talking about passing the baton: how we can often lose sight of the fact that we are preceded by a long line of faithful, Godly women and men whose contribution to the current life of the church ought not be forgotten. These days I wonder whether you think about the generation you will be passing that baton on to. What do you hope they inherit from the rise of evangelical worship that took place in the 90s and noughties?
MR: I heard a leader once say that 'the ceiling of one generation is the floor of the next'. I love the thought of that - that where one generation gets to, the next generation doesn't have to start building from scratch, but builds from there. I see that so much - younger worship leaders and musicians who are way ahead of where we were at their age - musically, leadership-wise and theological understanding about what worship is and isn't. The key is to give them some good guidelines for life, and not quench new ideas and approaches. When we helped plant a church a few years back the Church of England Bishop we were working with explained that we were at a pretty different place to him in term of his preferred expressions of worship gatherings. He gave us some key things that every church needs to have (breaking bread, prayer, sharing, giving to the poor etc) and said he wanted to see these firmly in place in the life of this new church plant. But then he said, beyond that he didn't really mind how loud it was, and what our gathered worship expressions looked or sounded like - that we had complete freedom. In other words he gave us permission to build something that he probably wouldn't feel all that comfortable in - for the sake of reaching others who would. That is just such a great approach. We felt secure in the guidelines he gave, but free to be creative and experimental as we built.
Matt Redman was talking to Craig Borlase
